Tuesday, April 3, 2012

T,R 9:50am

35 comments:

Tania Jarquin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tania Jarquin said...

We have all seen the idea of a utopia world where everything is free and people only take what they need. In reality, would that system work for humans (especially those of us in America)? Although I don’t particularly like stereotypes, I do believe that they exist for a reason. When you give people a hand, they want to take an arm. That quote only resonates stronger with Americans. Our market system may not be perfect but it has been effective for the past years. The only reason that American complain about the increasing cost of living is because they are never satisfied with what they can afford.

Sue Bond does pose an interesting angle to this topic. Most people underestimate the struggles that others have to go through to live on a daily basis. With both their arguments in mind and the idea of human greed, I believe that everyone should find a middle ground. The government needs to find a way to stabilize the income for people of all statuses. By taking a little away from the Rich would help the Poor improve their lives by a lot. Everything is relative to the person facing their struggles.

Jeffrey Roberts said...

I agree with Sue Bond because society has forced some people to the brink of doing just about anything for money. I think that market has changed form just a dialog about the exchange of ideas or goods to a worldwide attempt to convinced the poor country and people to work harder for less pay then buy back what they work for so the rich not only get the cheap labor, that produce a good product, payout below minimum wages then sell the same product back to the poor workers that did the labor in the first place. So the market runs itself and the rich stay rich and the poor stay working and buying the food that they plowed the fields to produced, never gaining any stable ground to the pursuit of happiness. Everything is up for sale; money has replaced the moral fabric of life and made a market out of us all. We market are bodies are children are life and anything that will turn a profit satisfying that old Supply and demand machine, whatever the market demands someone must supply. Freedom is a market; immigration is a market you got the money you can stay or you can stay if someone can market your skills. Prison is a market the longer you stay the more someone has to pay. Everyone is connected in the global market, now space has become a market.

Javier Zurita said...

At the heart of the toughest, most miserable, disgraceful human times that our country has had to endure, the only answer from these sad moments of human history was an increase in the overall sense of citizenship, cooperation, among other values that evoke human spirit. When the Civil War was at its utmost level of violence, President Lincoln made the Gettysburg address that cultivated in all of us a higher sense of what it really meant to be an American, and he incorporated in that speech the values in which the Founding Fathers forged this nation. I believe, like Sandel, that the only way to lead a virtuous and good life is by embracing values that instill in us a better sense of citizenship. These times we are more focused on our individual self, while remaining oblivious to the values that make a great country. What has made America a country to be emulated by others, is precisely a notion of a good society in which everyone deserves a fair shot to succeed. Apparently, a free market society has found a solution to the most vexing problems of our times by setting a price on each problem individually. But that is not what America is about. Have we always let the private interest of the few dominate the most profound spheres of public engagement of this country? Tracing it back to the foundation of the country, we certainly didn’t. But in the past decades (30 years or so as Sandel argues) we have let the private market shape and control what it is ought to remain public, such as education, health, liberty, public engagement and responsibility, etc. We should all exalt a higher understanding of cooperation, and realize that there should be other means to solve the problems that live within us, rather than just letting the less fortunate ones “sell their kidneys” to pay off college education for their family members. There should be other ways to put the youngsters on the right path toward a virtuous life, rather than just paying them “2$ to read a book”. As Sandel suggests, we need to engage in a public debate that will let us set the limits of the free market economy. And by setting such limits we will find a way to preserve a free market economy that will keep society active and one that rewards innovation, but also one that maintains the values that we most cherish as a society.

Eric Diniz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eric Diniz said...

I think greediness is a matter of accepting or not being the same as others. Actually everybody is greedy, everybody wants more and more; a better car, a better house, a better life. Thats how our culture is. Thats where we get to the 99% and the 1% of the population. The 1% are the ones that affect the life of the 99% with their greediness. The actual point is that the 1% are not getting what they want and the 99% are unsatisfied because things are getting more difficult to achieve. Some people achieve what they want in the right way and some people don't, it's a matter of moral that the person may or may not have. Of course there is the role of luck.

Veronica Paredes said...

We life in a society ruled by capitalism. Adam Smith incorporated a very important theory “The invisible hand” were we explains how the market naturally manage and keeps the cash flows from rich to poor. Everybody needs to works and has the desire and necessity to buy goods. The problem with society now is that is not setting the limit of the things that are being placed for sale. Nowadays even our morality and values are for sale, I do you think a women selling her body for money is part of what we consider integrity? People might do anything for money when they really need it, but other people are willing to risk others well being for their own pleasure. In the 80’s a new organizational structure arise called “Downsizing” it was created to make companies earn more profit. The negative aspect of this structure is that it leads to many workers being laid-off. So as numerous people became unemployed others became wealthier. I certainly agree with Sandel we should remember greed is one the 7 deadly sins. Being wealthy is not bad; many powerful and rich people give millions in donation every year. The problem stats when we stop caring for the people that really need support.

Veronica Paredes

Andy Daniel said...

The reason why the “market economy” has always had a great acceptance, and has proved to be more effective than other kinds of economic systems, including centralized and planned economy, is that it mimics human being’s nature or nature in general. We are not becoming a market society; we have always been one. The only difference is that now, due to the freedom that this economic system has had in the pass years, it has become more public.
The same things that are being commercialized freely today were commercialized in a different way in the past. For example, Sandel was talking about the commercialization of the human body as something new, brought by the corruption of the new uncontrollable market society. However, it is nothing new. Prostitution, known as the oldest of the professions, has been around for centuries. Many societies have made prostitution illegal but this has not stopped its practice. However, other societies, most of them in developed countries, have made prostitution a legal job. Sandel would call this an example of how this market system is affecting us. However, far from affecting us, the fact that something that was done illegally and without any control has become legal allows society to have more control over it, including locations, illness control and tax payments. Market society is nothing new; we are part of it since we wake up in the morning and we decide how to allocate our time, taking the risk that it could be better use in something else.
The two reasons why Sandel says that this market society is bad are inequality and corruption. Let’s start analyzing the second one. The corruption and the degradation of the human being is not something unique in the market system, it has been has being part of every known economic system, including Feudalism and Planned Economy. Again, the only difference is that, today, that degradation can be seen everywhere while in the medieval times when the church dominated everything, this degradation was hidden. Yes! Today, impotency is commercialized with new pharmaceutical products, but in the past people was also concerned about this, even before Viagra existed. In Dallas, a bad market society according to Sandel, some kids get paid money for reading books. I am sure that there are a lot of other kids who do not need any kind of motivation other than the pleasure that the books provide them with. In Cuba, a socialist country there are the same percentages of kids who like to read just because they like it.
Inequality was the other problem mentioned by Sandel. He says that if money can buy more, then inequality gets bigger. But isn’t this right? Let’s analyze the origins of money. Currency was created to help avoid having to trade some goods by other goods and make commerce easier. The real meaning of money is hard working and smart investment of that hard working. Inequality in acquisition of goods and services is unavoidable as long as people do not put the same amount of effort and invest that effort in different ways. That difference has to increase as time passes by if the same pattern continues in the same group of people. It is not true that people do not have the choice to change from poverty to becoming rich or vise-versa. What happens is that the path to obtain what everybody wants is hard.

Andy Daniel said...

We cannot create responsibility among bankers or big business executives. Market economy itself will create responsibility because it will make them reduce their wealth if they do something wrong. However, what our economic system should not do is saving them after they make a mistake. This is the real problem; we should not change the natural process of our market system. If they do not suffer the consequences of their mistakes, it is probable that the same problems will happen again. As long as there are two people in the world who agree in commercializing their properties, they should have the right to do it, because they both have the choice of not doing it if they do not want to, regardless of their economic or social status.
Yes! It is necessary for market economy to create debates even against itself. The debates should not be about prohibitions but about allowing people to follow their own nature, enjoying their good transactions and paying for the ones they did wrong.

Andy D.

Anonymous said...

I think Javier pretty much nailed it when he said " As Sandel suggests, we need to engage in a public debate that will let us set the limits of the free market economy. And by setting such limits we will find a way to preserve a free market economy that will keep society active and one that rewards innovation, but also one that maintains the values that we most cherish as a society."

By adhering to principles that resemble these, the collective advancement of a society is galvanized and sustained. A middle ground is needed, but everyone should be striving towards greater things through their own hard work.

-Luis Fernandez

Valerie Jean said...

I dont agree with none with either of them. Life isn't to live just because you see others doing it. People struggle every day. The government is being unfair for the situations of others. Money has taken over the world and how others view things, if it isnt about money, everyone will ignore you. Also being greedy plays a role in that.Everyone always want to take but never wants to give

Vanessa Gaspard said...

According to the article "What Isn't for Sale," by Micheal J. Sandel. I kinda of agree with some points her states in his article about "There are some things money can’t buy—but these days, not many."For instance he states a few examples of things that you can buy if you have money. A few examples that I was shaking my head about were:A prison-cell upgrade: $90 a night and your doctor’s cellphone number: $1,500 and up per year.First off, when you are a prisoner you should be able to have a privilege to upgrade anything because you are in jail for something bad you did and having an jail cell for yourself shouldn't be an option, but as they article states if you have money you can buy things now. In addition, Sandel also discuss about they people who doesn't have money what they go through to make money. One that was sad was about a mother selling space on her forehead to display commercial advertising: $10,000 just to pay for her son's education. It's sad what people have to do to get money and its sad what people who has money does with their money. I agree with Sandel article when he states about "What Isn't for Sale?" For that reason, as Sandel suggests, we need to engage in a public debate that will let us set the limits of the free market economy.

Eileen Amaya said...

I personally believe that if the government doesn't do anything to solve this economic issue this country is going to get worst than the own poor countries just by looking everyday at then news someone getting shot just to rob others and help survive their own families because they cannot find a job and cannot afford medicines etc for their families it is sad for them and for those innocent ones who shouldn't pay for others. Also, mostly everyday people are shoplifting whether it is clothes, electronics etc, and all because of money issue some may have jobs but get paid minimum wage which they can hardly afford to pay their bills and feed their families. Thats why people do what they have to do the unproper way, so my suggesting is that the government should stop wasting so much money on useless things and help increase our minimum wages and find ways to help other people to have jobs to continue to survive not only within their own lives but within their own families whom they have to take care of.

Eileen Amaya said...

I personally believe that if the government doesn't do anything to solve this economic issue this country is going to get worst than the own poor countries just by looking everyday at then news someone getting shot just to rob others and help survive their own families because they cannot find a job and cannot afford medicines etc for their families it is sad for them and for those innocent ones who shouldn't pay for others. Also, mostly everyday people are shoplifting whether it is clothes, electronics etc, and all because of money issue some may have jobs but get paid minimum wage which they can hardly afford to pay their bills and feed their families. Thats why people do what they have to do the unproper way, so my suggesting is that the government should stop wasting so much money on useless things and help increase our minimum wages and find ways to help other people to have jobs to continue to survive not only within their own lives but within their own families whom they have to take care of.

Eileen Amaya said...

I personally believe that if the government doesn't do anything to solve this economic issue this country is going to get worst than the own poor countries just by looking everyday at then news someone getting shot just to rob others and help survive their own families because they cannot find a job and cannot afford medicines etc for their families it is sad for them and for those innocent ones who shouldn't pay for others. Also, mostly everyday people are shoplifting whether it is clothes, electronics etc, and all because of money issue some may have jobs but get paid minimum wage which they can hardly afford to pay their bills and feed their families. Thats why people do what they have to do the unproper way, so my suggesting is that the government should stop wasting so much money on useless things and help increase our minimum wages and find ways to help other people to have jobs to continue to survive not only within their own lives but within their own families whom they have to take care of.

Eileen Amaya said...

I personally believe that if the government doesn't do anything to solve this economic issue this country is going to get worst than the own poor countries just by looking everyday at then news someone getting shot just to rob others and help survive their own families because they cannot find a job and cannot afford medicines etc for their families it is sad for them and for those innocent ones who shouldn't pay for others. Also, mostly everyday people are shoplifting whether it is clothes, electronics etc, and all because of money issue some may have jobs but get paid minimum wage which they can hardly afford to pay their bills and feed their families. Thats why people do what they have to do the unproper way, so my suggesting is that the government should stop wasting so much money on useless things and help increase our minimum wages and find ways to help other people to have jobs to continue to survive not only within their own lives but within their own families whom they have to take care of.

Eileen Amaya said...

I personally believe that if the government doesn't do anything to solve this economic issue this country is going to get worst than the own poor countries just by looking everyday at then news someone getting shot just to rob others and help survive their own families because they cannot find a job and cannot afford medicines etc for their families it is sad for them and for those innocent ones who shouldn't pay for others. Also, mostly everyday people are shoplifting whether it is clothes, electronics etc, and all because of money issue some may have jobs but get paid minimum wage which they can hardly afford to pay their bills and feed their families. Thats why people do what they have to do the unproper way, so my suggesting is that the government should stop wasting so much money on useless things and help increase our minimum wages and find ways to help other people to have jobs to continue to survive not only within their own lives but within their own families whom they have to take care of.

Yissell Martinez said...

In this article the two different ideas conferred by Sandel and his two readers are founded of real true events .On one of the readers point of view is that there’s is no choice for a mother when it comes to proving shelter or even food for their children. She is willing to do whatever it takes to guarantee her children’s future, even if that means to sell or give away an organ of hers. There’s no such freedom of choice in the market, even when someone wants to buy stocks he has no much to choose from unless he or she has the money to buy them, says the other reader. The truth is that as much as we want to consider or conceive the idea that there is a balance and well organize institution such as the market is, such idea is not true.

Elvis said...

I feel that the extent to which our society bases itself around money is unhealthy. The argument for capitalism that often comes close to convincing me that I should like it is that, if everyone truly does have equal opportunity, then capitalism allows those who are actually willing to do something with themselves will be rewarded and those who are lazy and do not take any initiative will be punished. However, one problem that I have found with this argument is in its most fundamental premise: that the worth of what we do is based around money. This idea of those who are “worth something” because they work hard vs. those who are not rests on this idea that we should spend our lives obsessed with making money. I wish that, instead, we could have a society in which people do things because they like to, not because they wish to make money. People often say that capitalism gives people incentive to work. I will agree that that is true given the way people in our society view things. However, I think we would do well to change that. A person should not only want to perform her/his job well, to produce a quality product, &c. only because he/she will make money, but because she/he actually cares about the work and wants to do it well. We must remember that money is only a means to an end. We value money because it brings us things that we want. We must remember that what makes us happy is not money in of itself, but certain goods and services that benefit us. It is okay to have money, as it is much more convenient than a barter system. However, we must not forget that it is but a means. I agree with Sue that these things are not truly choices. It is true that a rich person does not have to make these choices at all. If it had truly been the poor person’s choice to end up poor, then the case would be different. Although we like to say that our system allows everyone to decide where she/he will end up, it is a lot more complicated than that. A person born into poverty has a different understanding of the system than a person born into money. We needn’t immediately condemn anything that looks like a market, but we must not allow ourselves to get to the point where we start finding joy simply in money rather than in life.

Elvis said...

I feel that the extent to which our society bases itself around money is unhealthy. The argument for capitalism that often comes close to convincing me that I should like it is that, if everyone truly does have equal opportunity, then capitalism allows those who are actually willing to do something with themselves will be rewarded and those who are lazy and do not take any initiative will be punished. However, one problem that I have found with this argument is in its most fundamental premise: that the worth of what we do is based around money. This idea of those who are “worth something” because they work hard vs. those who are not rests on this idea that we should spend our lives obsessed with making money. I wish that, instead, we could have a society in which people do things because they like to, not because they wish to make money. People often say that capitalism gives people incentive to work. I will agree that that is true given the way people in our society view things. However, I think we would do well to change that. A person should not only want to perform her/his job well, to produce a quality product, &c. only because he/she will make money, but because she/he actually cares about the work and wants to do it well. We must remember that money is only a means to an end. We value money because it brings us things that we want. We must remember that what makes us happy is not money in of itself, but certain goods and services that benefit us. It is okay to have money, as it is much more convenient than a barter system. However, we must not forget that it is but a means. I agree with Sue that these things are not truly choices. It is true that a rich person does not have to make these choices at all. If it had truly been the poor person’s choice to end up poor, then the case would be different. Although we like to say that our system allows everyone to decide where she/he will end up, it is a lot more complicated than that. A person born into poverty has a different understanding of the system than a person born into money. We needn’t immediately condemn anything that looks like a market, but we must not allow ourselves to get to the point where we start finding joy simply in money rather than in life.

DANIEL L. said...

My view on this topic is real simple. I know for a fact that greed really played a major role among different markets and the society, but instead was effective towards the financial crisis, and other issues that were being resolved. Many individual are struggling everyday just for some cash and the government say they're trying their best to make a difference it's all lies from my point of view. Justice will be served to those individuals who were lied to and misleaded. Sometimes blood will have to be shed in order to make a fierce statement. Debates and meetings will be a fantastic way to start a revolution, but it wouldn't be a great way to get a point across.

Anonymous said...

The option to degrade human morality for the sake of earning a few bucks is something to really question. Markets seem to create a way to reach out to the "poor" in ways to get more money fast in all the wrong ways. I believe the market industries has gone way to far but then again you also have consider that there's those out there who will participate in such humiliating, dehumanizing, life threatening acts to receive what was promise. As Sue Bond mentioned, one may argue that one has the freedom to not go along with such acts but then again some individuals are under circumstances where they have no choice but to do what they have to do to survive,leading them to participate which makes them not free. As we all know it, in today's society money talks and thats bad because no money is able to cross over on to levels that suppresses morality and nature. Markets need to slow down and reconsider where to earn money because being able to buy anything literally is starting to become obsurred.

-Priscilla Brown

Kathiana Vixama said...

Truthfully, when it comes to this market economy.... It all about who can't get what. It's greed at it's worst, America want more than what they are given. Yes both authors made some valid points, but I don't agree with either one of them. Individuals are struggling with this market economy and changes need to be made.

Anonymous said...

I for one, completely appreciate Sandel, for even taking the time to evaluate the direction in which this country has been headed for so many years. Whether his argument is completely valid or not, he must be given credit for reproving the erosions in American society. If ever you want to corrupt something, put a price on it, it seems. Some things are sacred. Some things should not be monopolized upon. Some people thrive on “more”. There is a common disease related to vanity in the business sector, capital has driven some to the point that the public’s health and well-being are often not considered, while personal gain has become more valuable. It is my wish that our society can someday recognize this faulty direction, and then move in one more favorable to a universal system of peace and integrity, in all aspects of life.

Khaliq

Sindy Pulgarin said...

If a bussiness owner ofers a service to the public, it is obvious that he or she is entiled to a profit. People shouldn't be ask for favors and no one should expect favors from others as well. Calling people greety just because they work hard and as a result expect to make money for what they do is just wrong. Unfortunately in the bussiness world we are no equal. some people are visionaries, great entreprenuars, and hard working. some are born to be leaders while others are born to be followers. some people lack ambition and therefore they are happy working for someone else because they don't want much responsability or stress in their lives. others are born leaders, they make their own enterprses and take as much responsability as they can. they have ambition and they are willingb to work day and night to accomplished their goals. are they them greety because after years of work their ideas made them millions? is their fault that someone have to sell their kidney because they need money? we cannot go around blaming others because of our own economic problems. Some people like to hide behing this just because they cannot accept that they are not as good are making money as other people are. Blaming the rich isn't a solution for any economic crisis, and they should be forced to share their money with the poor. it's their money, they earn it so they should be entidled to keep it. punishing them by making them share their money with the poor is wrong. bussiness as some other

Anonymous said...

I agree with the first argument that if two people elieve there should be a market then those two people will cause an interaction that will end up creating the market. I also believe that just like in life there is the survival of the fittes, in market there has to be the smart and the dumb, the great and the worst. I also believe that in this country just like we have many freedoms, we are all free to support a market or just go along with everyone else sine we have already set the market as our way to interact and trade with others in prder for ou to obtain or lose something materialistic.

Daniel Rincon

Sindy Pulgarin said...

If a bussiness owner ofers a service to the public, it is obvious that he or she is entiled to a profit. People shouldn't be ask for favors and no one should expect favors from others as well. Calling people greety just because they work hard and as a result expect to make money for what they do is just wrong. Unfortunately in the bussiness world we are no equal. some people are visionaries, great entreprenuars, and hard working. some are born to be leaders while others are born to be followers. some people lack ambition and therefore they are happy working for someone else because they don't want much responsability or stress in their lives. others are born leaders, they make their own enterprses and take as much responsability as they can. they have ambition and they are willingb to work day and night to accomplished their goals. are they them greety because after years of work their ideas made them millions? is their fault that someone have to sell their kidney because they need money? we cannot go around blaming others because of our own economic problems. Some people like to hide behing this just because they cannot accept that they are not as good are making money as other people are. Blaming the rich isn't a solution for any economic crisis, and they should be forced to share their money with the poor. it's their money, they earn it so they should be entidled to keep it. punishing them by making them share their money with the poor is wrong. bussiness as some other

Sandrine Louis-Jeune said...

I wholeheartedly agree with Sandel. Making choices is part of an everyday life, it always happens. Even when a rich woman makes a choice to buy the new Gucci shoes instead of the Michael Kors watch, she is making a different kind of choice that does drive the market. Consumer Preference is huge in these kind of situations. When talking about america Bond makes a decision to always go through the extremes. Although its obvious that there are different type of factors that make someone choose different things, it still is a matter of choices in the end.

You must not limit the market and how it works. In order to have a free market and have true capitalism, you must let the market work out itself. In some specific industries, the free market doesn't work as well as it should. But in those ways, we have took upon ourselves to make those into command economies. Economic equality that is forced, will not lead to social equality. But once the market starts to need different factors, it will have a domino effect of social equality. This was seen with the US market needs in the 1960s when women started to work.

Lidice Brigido said...

I agree with Sandel, we live in a capitalist country with a very high level of consumerism where market is almost everything. Making choices is part of our daily life.

Gonzalo said...

In today's econonmy, so competititve, one has no choice but to come up with clever ways to make money. It's unfortunate that some people have to sell their kidneys to support their families. This is why coming up with any kind of way to earn money should not be frowned upon. Unless ofcourse it is dishonest. If in a city all the rental car companies are sold out except for one, the one that has cars left should raise the prices. It would be smart as a business owner. I do however agree with having a certain limit to this. Raise the price yes, but don't knock somebody's head off by doing so. Make it reasonable under the circumstances. My point is there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of supply and demand, on the contrary, it's smart. It certainly is not greety. People have to be smart in the market today. Especially since there are going to be slow seasons for many business, they therefore have to take advantage when in season.

Carolina Cerrato said...

As much as everyone hate stereotypes, they exist for a reason and they are very hard to escape. We can all each identify with at least a few stereotypes ourselves, whether we want to or not. The quote stated could not be truer to the american people. The little that is given is never enough.

The struggles a lot of people go through are never remedied by our government. Our system seems to benefit the rich more than the poor. There needs to be a blanace between the two. The pursuit of wealth has ruined the american culture and has kept the rich, rich, and the poor, poor.

Is this right? I don't think so. considering the background of our families. But united we can show the inequalities our government system puts us in and demand equality for the rich and poor.

Luigi Forvil said...

Hello class, my name is Luigi Forvil, a former student of Tariff (a great professor).

I stopped by on the blog page and read the comments from your class. I am impressed to how you guys understand the subject in matter and the responses are amazing. Let your voices be heard.

Good job! And, continue learning from Tariff. Study hard. Learn as much as you can especially if you are considering a Philosophy major.

Philosophy is fun, challenging, and good for the mind. I wish you all the best on your endeavors.

Awesome job.

Katryna19 said...

money is something that people want and need and to a certain extent cant live without. so if people fel the need that they have to do whatever it it they need to do they will beacuse money equals greed and the need for that.

Berlyne Julmis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Berlyne Julmis said...

The market / economy to me have been successful because of buying and selling. If we take away ones freedom to sell or to buy we are jeopardizing our economy and how the market was built. Anything can be for sale, but it is up to the seller to decide where they draw the line. If you sale what is rightly yours than you are within your rights. What are absolutely not for sale is items that does not belongs to you. Wall Street did not become corrupt because of buying and selling; it became corrupt due to people who are untrustworthy, dishonest, and thieves. If we stuck with what made the market wheel than we would be in a way better economic situation. On another note, ones dignity, values / morals, beliefs (cultural & religious), self-respect, family and friends are never up for sale no matter the price.