Tuesday, September 18, 2012

T 5:40pm

20 comments:

Nancy Macias said...

This video isn't worth the insane publicity it has received around the world. The "film" is a joke, nothing more than bigots showing off their ignorance. The fact that these people are hiding behind freedom of speech to further their prejudice agenda is disgusting. Realistically speaking, a lot of people in this country are not tolerant of others' religious views. This video just further proves that. The Muslim people around the world have a right to protest this video. However, doing so with malice or violence just perpetuates a cycle of intolerance on both ends. They would be no better than these people who created the video.

There is so much lack of respect for people who are not Christian Americans. This country was founded on the principles of religious freedom. For thousands of years people have been persecuted for believing in something other than the norm around the world. How is it that so many ideals have evolved but this one has not. Most of us believe in one God. The same God, just different versions of him. Different religions spin different "truths" to their followers. If for just a moment people could see clearly, could open their minds to the idea that religion should not run their lives, maybe this situation would not have stirred so much controversy. The bigots and the offended are enslaved by their perspective religions and refuse to have any real secular views. They will continue, unfortunately, to fight and incite one another until we are involved in another world war. Killing in the name of religion is as moronic as that video that should just go away. Everyone needs to stop being so sensitive and self righteous and grow up. This is a form of bullying, ignore it and you take away from it's power.

Nancy Macias

MAYZ said...

I believe hate is always going to happen. It is nothing we could change nor accept it’s just an intangible feeling. It’s not a matter of discussing however a right… the right for speech. When it comes to the KKK and murder that is being extravagant. And even in the bible it says anything without moderation is a vice. I don’t believe in change when it comes to the human being.
If one looks at history, hate has always been a factor. A wise man once said, “Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it.” With this quote I back up my belief which its hate is always going to be a dilemma. As long as men are alive feelings are going to exist.
And when it comes to the human feeling; that is nothing which man could fix. However, just accept and make difference within one’s self to not repeat someone’s mistake.

-Maybelis Velasquez

Stephanie Santana said...

Absolutely nothing justifies murder. There will always be differences between countries, beliefs, skin color; it doesn't matter if you like kebabs in Istanbul, or enjoy pan con lechon in Calle Ocho. You have to be part of this world, you didn't choose to be in it,but you are for a limited amount of time.As long as you are a healthy human being, you have to interact with your environment, you have to be tolerant. Nothing gives the right to bully to anyone. I believe in the utopia that one day we all come together as brothers and sisters from the greater good.

In my opinion nothing based on religion shoudl be a law. It can helps us shape the law, but it should be based on looking towards the respect for each other. A learning experience as we go in this world. Maybe is our universal Karma, but the decision of change comes from within each one of us.

Some people say, but Ala is a bad thing, Ala is an evil god. Well, let me tell you if we judge gods by their followers actions, Christians should be first in the line of evil gods; we should not forget the crusades. Exploratory wars was their logical explanation, where they killed millions of people in the name of Christ and god itself. In my opinion nothing matters but our own personal choices. There's no heaven or hell; just the one that you create for yourself. The moment that you live in is now. Now you have the opportunity to be good, to donate, to help your brothers and sisters, to help your wife taking out the trash.

We all have the abstract idea of a god. It should be a good thing, something that inspires us to be better, to act better, to treat each other with respect. Why can't we just all get along?

Julie Neel said...

What is the difference between Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist… and even Atheist people? The difference is that they all believe in a different god, or they don’t believe in god. Now, what is the similarity between them? Whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist you are a human being. Secularity is what makes a difference between people. In a secular country like the United States of America for instance, tolerance is the key. Political decisions are unbiased by religious influence. People coexist and respect each other beliefs and values. People have the right to express their own opinion until it doesn’t offend anybody. As a matter of fact, the first Amendment of the constitution states: 1. freedom of religion, 2. freedom of speech, 3. freedom of press, 4. right to assembly peacefully and finally 5. freedom of petition the government for a redress of grievance. On the other hand, secularism is often condemned by Muslims who do not wish to separate mosque and state. The role of Islam or religion in Muslims country is massive. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Well, being an atheist, I don’t think it’s a good thing. People live their lives based on the central religious text of Islam, the Koran. Following, are some quotes from the Koran:
A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says: Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)
Husbands are a degree above their wives.
The Quran in Sura 2:228 says: Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.
The Quran in Sura 2:282 says: And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).
Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).
The Quran in Sura 4:34 says: 4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)
1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.
The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)
The oppression of women that Islam advocates is not only disturbing, but is in direct contrast with everything that Western civilization stands for when it comes to the rights of women. How can people from a non-secular country evolve with evolution when the quotes cited above from the Koran about women, are in my opinion outrageous? I believe Muslims countries should go for “an open minded secularism”.
Julie Neel

atRifF said...

Ok, Maybelis, I get it, but what is your opinion regarding this particular discussion?

aslan lamarche said...

First of all Neel you are grossly misrepresenting Islam and it goes to show you just how "intelligent" of an athiest you truly are. Here are some points of your gross misunderstandings.
1. Islam is a religion that covers all areas of human life. From How to pray, how to eat, how to read Quran,how Muslims greet each other, and how they speak to non-muslims...in short, all aspects of a human life are considered Shariah. Banning "Shariah" or separating it from state, is actually infringing on a Muslim's right to pray, fast, etc...

2. "Mosque and state"? Do you even know what a Mosque is? Do you know the historical role of a Mosque?Unlike a Church, Mosques were not just for places of worship. It incorporates all areas of life and all religions of life to converge and discuss political problems, philosophy, tafseer, seerah, Quran recitation, education( secular and religious), as well as places of refuge for the wayfarer. stating your speratation of "Mosque and state", you have convienentaly left out the fact that a Mosque operates as a community center, so you can get started on your points to polarize the Muslim community. How convenient for your point to polarize Muslims as a whole.

aslan lamarche said...

3. All of your out of context ayats of the Holy Qu'ran just shows to everyone to what extent you will go to, to attempt to humilate Islam, Muslims, and our Holy Prophet( S.a.a.w). I will start off by saying this, any attempt to use a TRANSLATED text of the Holy Quran is voided. All Muslims read Quran in Arabic, since there are difficulties in translating certain arabic words to English( as well as the fact that it was revealed in arabic). But before I get started on the debunking some your TRANSLATED verses(as I don't have the time to debunk all of them), let my first ask you, are you Hafiz? Have you mastered Tajweed? Do you know which verses are from what part of Seerah? Do you know arabic and syntax of arabic? Do you know Hadiths related to each Ayat in Quran as well as the Isnad to understand which hadith are Sahih or daeef? Have you even learned the basis of Seerah? Or better yet, do you know which ayats came from Medina or Mecca?
Have you studied the four great Imams of Islam, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed, and Imam Shafi and their respective Fiqh and Madhabs?Have you read and studied under the great intellectuals of the great Imams such as Sheikh Albani(R.A)Ibn Baz and Muhammad Nanutawi(R.A) or Ibn Taymiah(RA...just to name a few of 1400 years of Islamic scholarship)?,If no to even one of these, then you really shouldn't be spreading hatred and ignorance to people who are not familiar with Islam, because making any sort of examination of an ayat of the Quran is a long and well-examined process. This is a classic example of anti-semitism( yes, Islam is semitic along with Christianity and Judiasm).
4. You brought up Surah Baqara, ayat 223 and ayat 228 of the same surah as evidence of the subjecation of women. However, if you were a little knowledgeble of the tafseer, you would know that Allah revealed the ayat making it permissable to approach your wife from any angle, whether it be from behind, forward,up, down, any angle that you may wish. The Seerah explains, that this was in response to some of the Meccan Jews who said that if you approach your wife from behind your child will be cross-eyed.
5. Al-Tabari in his Tafsir narrated from Ibn `Abbas: "The daraja( degree) mentioned by Allah Most High here is the forfeiting, on the man's part, of some his wife's obligations towards him and his indulgence towards her, while he is fully obligated to fulfill all his

aslan lamarche said...

obligations towards her, because the verse came right after { And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness} . Hence Ibn `Abbas said: 'I would not like to obtain all (astanzif) of my right from her because Allah Most High said and men are a degree above them.

I'm not going to comment on the rest for the sake of not writing a full blown essay(as your whole comment is void of any sense). But I would kindly like to ask you, before you make accusations against my religion,for the sole purpose to cause hatred and misguidence to non-Muslims and Muslims, I would suggest you educate yourself on the topic first. Jazkallah Khairun for your time.

Daniel Tomczak said...

“for an open minded secularism”
We live in a world of utter hypocrisy. For me, the question this post begs is “who is anyone to judge what others do in the name of their beliefs?” Admittedly, I’m not one who makes the time to stay informed with worldwide news. I am also not a religious person although I was raised as one. It’s always the same tired song and dance. The media always finds a way to present things from a biased perspective. It is to say that a lot of our current views on how the rest of the world handles their rights should be questioned. Do we have the right to judge them? And even if we feel we do hold that right, should it in effect, affect how they carry out their indignation towards something that insults the core of their beliefs?
For those of us born into this country, we were raised on a set of beliefs, political views, and religious upbringing that hardly coincides with everyone within our own borders, let alone the rest of the planet. It is however, our freedom of speech that has allowed us to “agree to disagree.” This isn’t the case on every continent and in every country. Some nations on this earth were born from, and have revolved around, religion. At one point, even our nation was originally founded under a set of beliefs that has slowly evolved. I remember standing up in class every morning and reciting these words some twenty plus years ago with my right hand over my heart:
“One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All”
We are a far cry from those words recited above. Change is said to be good, but change can also be a façade which would in essence make true change impossible. Discrimination, racism, and overall hate still exist even within the confines of our “great nation.” To think otherwise would be purely ignorant. So are we truly one nation? Are we truly indivisible? Is there really true liberty and justice for all?
What we have on this blog post is a combination of people protesting something for reasons they should be humanly entitled to, and others taking advantage of a situation to commit crimes, as in the case of ransacking the school in Tunis. I would even venture to say that some with an innately violent nature take advantage of religious beliefs as an excuse to indulge in what is ordinarily prohibited by laws in their country or morally reproachable. When speaking of “laws” we have to consider that governmental laws, in and of themselves, have at some point or other been based on a set of religious beliefs. Which leads me to my original point; we live in a world of utter hypocrisy.
While I am in no way a fan of or believe in murder as a right simply because of disagreeing on a religious level, I am no one to judge how people carry out their beliefs given that they do so from a standpoint of purity. In addition, as someone with a very dry sense of humor and a huge fan of sarcasm, I cannot either condone or condemn a satirical posting. To me it is nothing more than another opinion. That is the only true form of universal freedom that exists on this planet, opinion and our right to it whether we can express it or not without reproach.

Nerea said...

In response to the anti-Islam film, is a film that was posted in you tube by a hate group of extremist. With today’s technology, it is almost impossible to stop people from posting their opinions in the internet. But even if there was something to prevent such act, the United States practices and has been practicing freedom of speech for many years. This Country does not condemn or penalize someone for expressing their opinion; even if they are as disturbed as the ones in the anti-Islam film. And I agree with freedom of speech. It makes no sense that we shouldn’t be allowed to share our different views and ideas. My thought when I saw this video was: Can’t the Islamic people see that this is only a video made by a group of ignorant hateful group? Why couldn’t the Islamic people response in the same manner? Why do they have to go all crazy and start bombing and killing people? Why did they only take this hate video in consideration and not all the other positive videos that were also posted on you tube from other Americans (including the president) before they decided to act violently. I’m not saying that the Islamic people shouldn’t defend their views, I’m simply saying that there are other ways besides violence to argue their views and believes. The United States does draw the line when violence is used in response of a speech. In an interview by Hillary Clinton, she states that to attack an embassy is to attack the idea of working together. The United States had nothing to do with such hate video. This country is the home of all religions. Some whom even came to this land to practice their religion. I know that this video provokes rage, but violence is no way to honor any religion.
By Nerea Duran.

Olga Lucia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Olga Lucia said...

Just like there are religious differences there are political differences as well. Different views in regards to the economy, labor, class, military, you name it. All view points, whether they be religious or political are subject to questioning, challenge and/or scrutiny, which is a good thing. Secularism is nothing more but another step towards the road to modernization. Differences will always be present?

So in essence, we are back to square one. Nothing has changed and nothing stays the same. I love philosophy.

Felipe Juncadela said...

In our every changing world we start to see countries that have been oppressed for decades break through walls that these totalitarian leaders have built. More people begin to feel the sense of freedom and rights, and they are liberated from their religious or political persecution. One Freedom that people feel that is an essential part of life is the freedom of speech. This freedom allows a person to speak out for good and against evil, or for evil and against good. But in order to keep our freedom to say what we want we need to protect those who speak of offensive or sacrilegious topics. These people that chose to speak out on religious views and desecrate religious ideas or relics should have just as must of a right to do so as a priest or rabbi that preaches to his audience. There is nothing more important then secularism to keep this notion of freedom of speech alive. With out secularism laws would be molded by the religious views, which would not allow those that don’t believe those views to speak out against them creating oppression amongst the people.

Felipe Juncadella

Anonymous said...

Freedom of speech is a value of expression that should come with limits. Expressing yourself should go as far as giving your aspect on things in your life and in your government but it should not lead to violence. Freedom of expression should not violate the next individual’s rights as a person to no extent. Religion plays an important key role in freedom of expression but it should not result in the matter of killing pastors or burning churches. People have taken this matter into different aspects that were never intended.

Toletha Collins

Julie Neel said...

People go too far in their personal belief using the freedom of speech. People transgress the line too many times. Either you believe in something or you don’t no one should have the right to offend other people feelings or beliefs. That is my opinion. I think in my previous post, my message was misunderstood. I didn’t mean to attack, offend or speak badly about Muslims people or any religion. I gave facts and my opinion about secularism. Nothing else. And I insist on saying that I will never judge or denigrate anybody’s beliefs because being an atheist I am the least person who can actually understand what religion is.
Julie Neel

Anonymous said...

Secularism a doctrine that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship is a tool use by haters against people, in this case Muslims, due to the terrorist’s attacks in New York city and around the world, people have created a wrong idea of what Muslim people are, discrimination to Muslims occurs everyday in airports, malls and in the streets, we are treating them as if they all were terrorists. I my opinion I think we have fear against them and we are not willing to know them better. In order to judge them first we need to understand their mentality and get to know their culture. Nothing justifies murder nor discrimination to these particular individuals.
But differences between individuals are always going to exist.

Jose Gallegos

Anonymous said...

Perspective, for me that is all what freedom depends on. Like the definition of what beauty is depends on the person, freedom is all about a person’s beliefs. For some people watching a woman covered up from head to toes is delusional, maybe those who are covered up find completely crazy the desire of a woman to be showing around a “perfect” body. The problem with freedom of speech is that it has to be a given to a very open minded crowd that is going to agree or disagree with your point but in a total unbiased way. With that being said we can realize that when we are listening to someone giving his/her point of view we have a hard time accepting the true of the facts if that person doesn’t share our same beliefs.
Humans have a hard time dealing with problems, and the majority of us wont switch our perspective easily; for example if you are a Christian and don’t like Muslims you would think it is ok to treat a Muslim bad because of all what they have done, but it is not right and not all of Muslims are terrorists.

Andrea Gonzalez

Anonymous said...

Having a different point of view on a religion or worshipping a different God than someone else should never be a reason to kill anyone. We all have a right to our own beliefs and religion. When it comes to the government, religion shouldn’t play a role in the decisions that are made. A secular country will do a better job at separating the roles of the two, and with that, comes a bigger tolerance towards others’ religious views. If someone feels the need to desecrate a certain religion or a certain view of it, then they should feel free to express their beliefs on the matter without fearing for their lives. There are many different religions around the world, which stresses the point that we all have a right to choose what we want to believe in, and we should accept that not everyone is going to agree with us. The Islam people were in their right to protest about the video that was made desecrating their religion, however, their protesting shouldn’t have gone as far as it did. Obviously, that was the act of extremists whom decided to bring justice by acting in an evil way and the rest of them shouldn’t be judged based on the acts of this group. It is important that we all learn to be tolerant and respectful of our differences in beliefs so that things like that will stop occurring.

Yagna Viera

Anonymous said...

I do not support the video, because of course no matter how much freedom of speech we have, we must first think about the consequences our comments may cause, specially being these comments about religion, moreover muslin’s whom take it very seriously. Nonetheless, I don’t think that this video is a big enough justification to start a war with the magnitude it has. To the defense of the muslins they don’t know what “freedom of speech” is as we know it. Yet, that does not justify murder. I believe this video is just an excuse to express not only the religious but all the differences they have with America. Which brings me to the comment “not all protesters have the same goals and motivations” they’re not all fighting for the same reason or in defense of the same believes, I think the video is just the perfect reason a the perfect time to start a revolt.
Barbara Navas

Anonymous said...

Each person is entitled to their own opinions. We are all raised different ways and live in different environments so we shouldn't be reprimanded for who and what we believe in. I also believe if a there isn't a reason to challenge a belief then here wouldn't be so much conspiracies and wars going on. If we can all just accept the fact we will not always agree on things this world would be so much better off. If only we all can hold strong to our faith and beliefs and respects others. I'll keep dreaming for that day.
We all discriminate in some way or the other weather it's shoes, sex, race, or even a pack of gummy bears, I know I only eat the red ones. Blasphemy, desecration, discrimination are all unavoidable. My goal is to "Live and let live" hold on to my beliefs and allow others go have their own.



Patreace Scharschmidt
Tuesday 5:40pm